Stirred not Shaken

July 22, 2009

Simple question….

Filed under: Uncategorized — Debs @ 4:02 pm

Do you believe the church is intended for the believer or non-believer…and why?  Think about it, it’s not as simple as you may think….   😉

21 Comments

  1. […] Simple question…. […]

    Pingback by What (or Who) is Church For? « Cindy in South Dakota — July 26, 2009 @ 9:26 am

  2. Thank you Dan, wish there was more of this “they would preach the Gospel that Paul preached and leave the calling/attracting to the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.”

    Comment by Debs — July 23, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

  3. There’s a good summary of the purpose of the church at:
    http://www.gotquestions.org/purpose-church.html that covers the meeting of believers together as defined in Acts 2:42, as well as purposes of the church in the larger context(s).

    I asked the question how? is it to be ‘for’ the non-believer, because I see all over the place, churches who claim to be ‘for’ non-believers in all the wrong ways, attracting them through the doors with a non-gospel. If our services were really for the non-believer, they would preach the Gospel that Paul preached and leave the calling/attracting to the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit.

    In other words, the structure/content of the church ‘service’ is NOT designed to primarily attract non-believers but for believers to be engaged in Acts 2:42 ‘activity’.

    Comment by Born4Battle — July 23, 2009 @ 3:55 pm

  4. I am obviously not saying this right. I don’t agree that a church service should solely be for believers. When I look at

    Acts I see in 2:41 “So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.”

    and in 2:46-47 “And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.”

    If the church service, which is how I should have begun in the first place, is solely for the believer, how is this going to take place? I can’t see people individually witnessing and then bringing them in once they are saved…I think the gospel should be taught in such a way within the four walls that the Lord adds to our number day by day those who are being saved, as well as equipping the “church body” to go out. I just don’t see it happening.

    Comment by Debs — July 23, 2009 @ 3:27 pm

  5. Maybe it would be helpful if you explain what you mean the church is ‘for’ the non-believer? In what way should it be ‘for’ the non’believer? And then maybe show us the pattern in scripture that supports your definition?

    Comment by Born4Battle — July 23, 2009 @ 2:41 pm

  6. OK, so I make a statement like “church should be for non-believers” and run into garbage like this

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.11/atheism.html

    Ummmm no….not what I meant. Hopefully ya’ll can see what I’m trying to say by my comments, if not, I’d be happy to explain in detail……

    Comment by Debs — July 23, 2009 @ 7:57 am

  7. “If I had commented early on, I would have asked for the definition of ‘church’ in the context of the question. the church universal is the body of ‘called out’ body of believers.”

    I always assume people know this is what I mean by “church”…..and yes FOR God, still would like to see the ratio thing change…and still believe it is more for the non-believer…

    Comment by Debs — July 23, 2009 @ 5:55 am

  8. If I had commented early on, I would have asked for the definition of ‘church’ in the context of the question. the church universal is the body of ‘called out’ body of believers. If we are talking about the visible ‘church’ Jesus said “I will build MY church”. So the ‘collective’ body of people who are IN the ‘church’ is made up of believers. It is intended FOR, in the ultimate sense, for the glory of God and the honor of His Name.

    You question, however, is “who is it for, believers or unbelievers”? First, I submit any answer to that question must be the context of the “glory of God and the honor of His name”, that the church is first and foremost, FOR God.

    If we define church as a local assembly, it is for both believers and non-believers. I offer that the church that is ‘inside’ the four walls is primarily for ‘believers’. We need only look to the book of Acts for support in that assertion. The letters of Paul to churches were addressed to believers.

    The church is ‘for’ non-believers in different ways. Non-believers who hear the word ‘church’, whether referring to Christians or the place down the church called a church, should first have thoughts of God – hopefully high and holy thoughts.

    that’s about enough for now……

    Comment by Born4Battle — July 23, 2009 @ 4:52 am

  9. Mornin CK! Good to see your mug 🙂

    Comment by Debs — July 23, 2009 @ 4:11 am

  10. Hi Cindy! Good to see you. Nice perspective… I think we’re combining who it is for along with it’s purpose, which is great. It is always first and foremost about and for God, believer and non-believer alike, alot to this actually….

    I love your second point…. so important to kick that demon bootie 🙂

    Thank you for stopping by!

    Comment by Debs — July 23, 2009 @ 4:07 am

  11. Cindy hit the nail on the head…That is what the church should be.

    Comment by ckroboth — July 23, 2009 @ 3:53 am

  12. Hi, Debs

    Great question. I’d say first, neither. The church is for Jesus–to be His body and His bride. The church is for the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the sons and daughters of God the Father, and to be His dwelling place.

    Second, the church is to display the multifaceted wisdom of God to the principalities and the powers–the rulers of this darkness.

    Third, to minister the love of God to one another.

    Fourth, to display that love to unbelievers, along with the wisdom and power of God, to bring them to repentance and into the family of God.

    Love in Him, Cindy

    Comment by cindyinsd — July 22, 2009 @ 10:14 pm

  13. Yes Papa, it is a tool…one of many. I’m not critical on the ratio, and yes it is important, just not everything. I love to spend time in the church, with the church, it’s what happens outside to draw more for Christ that is equally if not more important than a group of believers getting together.

    Comment by Debs — July 22, 2009 @ 7:36 pm

  14. Remember Deb, the church building is a tool – a meeting place – on an average week I spend 3 hours in that building – it is a tool for most of the people I know – a great tool. I spend more time than that blogging in a day – 🙂 So don’t be too critical on the ratio – the ratio can be high, its what happens after that hour you spend on Sunday morning that grabs me. You and I spent an hour as believers in a church service and that was a good thing. We worshiped together part of that time and also heard a missionary give a timely report – that was good as well – an hour well spent.

    Comment by Indian Lake Papa — July 22, 2009 @ 7:28 pm

  15. Papa…I will always read as much as you feel like typing..you know my respect level for you 🙂 I’m not arguing, more thinking out loud. You asked “isn’t it suppose to be expected for the church to be made up of believers?” and I say yes…that is the problem I have. If I walk into a church of 10 or 10,000 and the ratio of believers to non-believers is even close to being the same, you now have my attention. I know you are doing your part, there is no doubt, you are an amazing man of God. I will be praying for you and Mama. “The church” tho, is outside the four walls. How many times do we have people counting numbers inside the church, when really the “count” for the week should be only those who do not yet know Christ?

    Comment by Debs — July 22, 2009 @ 7:11 pm

  16. I re-read your last comment and missed answering your question. I think most churches today are made up of believers. However, isn’t that to be expected? Where I have a problem is that we need to bring those who need Christ to the church – then they become part of that assembly / congregation. I am working with a couple now who are on the brink of divorce, with children and know that our church family would love them to death if we can get them there. First we are working on getting in their home – next week – we have an invite. The sad part/almost funny – they live down the road from the church less than a mile – so close! Pray for mama and I that we are His witnesses to this couple. THere is much more to this story.

    Comment by Indian Lake Papa — July 22, 2009 @ 7:02 pm

  17. Deb – again, I think the church “must” be made up of both. I think the building and facilities are tools – I am actually the church. Just as Peter was the church. Christ should be able to build His kingdom on us and through us. I would LOVE to talk to you about the negatives (there are many) about the church but also where I think the church needs to go from here – we would have a great conversation. My one-finger/one hand typing is not conducive for conversational stuff – ha!

    Comment by Indian Lake Papa — July 22, 2009 @ 6:51 pm

  18. I agree with you Papa… but believers or non-believers? I love your four points! When I walk into a church I tend to look at the “ratio” so to speak….are we really doing what we are called to do if the majority are believers?

    Comment by Debs — July 22, 2009 @ 6:13 pm

  19. There are some scholars that believe the actual intent was that the greek word ‘ekklesia’ should have been translated as congregation or assembly.

    I have been a part of a church for decades and have found it relevant in several areas:
    1) A community of like believers who worship together.
    2) A place to develop my spiritual walk.
    3) A place for others to find Christ – and be encouraged.
    4) A rescue station for the lost, those hurting & need help.

    Comment by Indian Lake Papa — July 22, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

  20. My desire is to always dig Papa…you got it! LOL….

    I’ll spur it on a little…the Greek word for church in the New Testament is ekklesia……it refers to “a single gathering of people who are not of God”….

    Simple just left the building… 😉

    Comment by Debs — July 22, 2009 @ 4:58 pm

  21. Both! 🙂 How is that for a simple answer to your desire for a complicated answer. I will respond perhaps more when I see where this topic goes.

    One of the interesting comments I heard, is without a church, the only contacts you have are the ones you make on your own. Especially World Evangelism – a good thought, but not totally accurate. Our church has a sign over the door as you leave, “You are now entering your mission field.”

    Comment by Indian Lake Papa — July 22, 2009 @ 4:40 pm


RSS feed for comments on this post.

Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.

Blog at WordPress.com.